Reflections on the Emergent Church: Should Gospel-Believers have reservations about God's Wrath and Judgement? - A Response to IanJMatt

I am going to respond to Ianjmatt.

Here were his thoughts and questions:

"Hmm. I think you have confused a few things.

If you read the opening chapters of Lost Message, you will see that Chalke and Mann are not denying 'original sin', they are asking whether or not focussing ont his is a good way to evanglise. Their phrase 'original goodness' is about the fact that the Father saw every human being as worth saving through His Son - that every person is someone God wants back. Really, your disagreement is one of practice, not doctrine, as that is what they were discussing at this point. Surely that is a lesser issue?

On the issue of wrath there are two distinction. Did the Father NEED to pour out his wrather upoin the son to forgive, and does He still act wrathfully after the sacrifice of the Son?"


Here is my response:

First, it would be wonderful to correspond with you by e-mail as well.

Second, thank you for your comments as they prove helpful to re-think my statements and to verify their validity.

Thirdly, you are right in that Chalke and Mann are arguing that original sin is not important to convey in evangelism. However, you are very wrong in that they are saying that don't believe in original sin. You are arguing from a literal standpoint from what is written, but judging from their further arguments and their own logic; that is what they are saying. Of course I am not shocked seeing that is what most in the emergent church do anyways; attempt at denying essential doctrinal truth so everyone can be "happy".

Fourth, the Father did need to pour out his wrath on his son in that there was no other way as Scripture speaks from Genesis to Revelation. He does act wrathfully on individuals today in order to get people to repent of their sins and believe the Gospel (Check out Luke 13 and the tower of Siloam).

Fifth, the Father will continue to pour out his wrath on sinners and sin itself as the Bible states that he will send his Son Jesus to judge the living and the dead. I believe Revelation is very clear that he will come riding on a white horse with a flaming sword in his hand to strike down all who oppose him. Really frightening unless you have trusted in Jesus and in that case, it will be glorious and beautiful as sin will be removed forever.

So in conclusion, I believe you have confused a few things.

First, you need to distinguish what is essential in the Scriptures that is a part of the Gospel (the finished work of Christ on the cross for sinners).

Second, you need to see those essentials as they are, essential and to not shrink back as Paul declared he would not do from declaring the full counsel of God (which is the Gospel and all its doctrinal teachings).

Lastly, you need to quit doubting Christ's work on the cross that is complete and that is was not for you and me that he died essentially, but for the Father's glory. As Romans states, "There is nothing good in us, nothing." He did not come to bring out the potential there is in us and he did not come to die so he could rejoice in us as if there was something valuable inside of our lives. Christ came to give glory to the Father that by his sacrifice you might come to the knowledge of his glory. That is the Gospel and he took our place as our substitute to pay the penalty we deserved.

Think about those things I just mentioned and read the Bible with it's "objective" propositional truth ianjmatt.

Candidate

No, unlike the rest of the world I am not talking about the candidate for the President of the USA. Steven and I are candidates for missionaries with the IMB!! We had our in depth interview yesterday and we passed. We received an invitation to the candidate conference in Virginia December 9-14 and we gladly accepted. This puts us in our new country around September 2009! Many more steps in the process are to come, but all looks good for smooth sailing. Thank you for continuing to pray for us!

Reflections on the Emergent Church: Should Gospel-Believers have reservations about God's Wrath and Judgement?

I believe that there are a list of questions that could pertain to this discussion. Unfortunately all questions will not be discussed for the sake of space and your time in reading this. However, I do believe it will be profitable for your sanctification to revisit the main issues of: Why did Jesus die?, What ultimately is at stake when we marginalize the biblical thought of the wrath of God?, and Where does it fit within the framework of the Theistic Worldview?

Let's begin with the first main issue of why Jesus died.

1. Galatians 3:13 - Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law be becoming a curse for us-for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree."
2. Romans 3:25: God put forward Christ as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
3. 1 John 4:10: In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

That word propitiation means Christ's death appeased God's just wrath. This is called penal substitution in that God paid the penalty that we deserved and substituted himself in the form of his son Jesus Christ in taking our place.

Two emergent writers Steve Chalke and Allan Mann refer to penal substitution as "a form of cosmic child abuse, " which they write, contradicts the statement "God is love" and "makes a mockery of Jesus' own teaching to love your enemies and to refuse to repay evil for evil." I am very certain Peter had no issue with seeing the cross as a model for our suffering and as a payment for our sin as seen in 1 Peter 2:21-24.

You might think emergent church leaders would stop there, but you have to follow the logic of their thinking. Steve Chalke rejects original sin, claiming "Jesus believed in original goodness" in his book The Lost Message. His questioning is not, do I believe in God?, as much as does God believe in me? How similar does this sound to Joel Osteen? This is nothing more than a "new, cool, hip" version of self-esteem Gospel that is breaking subtle ground in the life of the church. "God wants to bring out the best in you? Your best life now! I am a Champion!" I know that might seem a little exaggerated, but when it comes to defending the Gospel of the Bible you must defend all tenets or teachings of Scripture completely and not just the ones people will listen to and feel good about. The wrath of God is not meant of us to "feel" good about ourselves. There is a reason God has his wrath aimed at mankind and justly so as a Holy God. When you threaten the glory of the Sovereign King, you come under his just wrath. God's glory was threatened and sending His Son to die to appease His wrath would satisfy Himself in getting the glory due his name and as a result, those who would repent and trust in his finished work would be saved from their sins. Isn't that love? Love that has power to justly destroy and justly save?

The wrath of God needed a solution and it would have to be the cross, Christ's sacrifice of himself, the blood spilled for the remission of sins, and the resurrection. This was all to happen to appease or satisfy our Holy God because of his love for those who would repent and trust in his finished work.

Now, what is at stake when the emergent church decides to marginalize the wrath of God? It results in the understanding that God is no longer a holy God who is angry with sin, who, in his great mercy, sent His Son to die on our behalf so that divine justice might be satisfied, but becomes a vulnerable lover who opens himself up to hurt and rejection in order to be with us because we are worth dying for.

Kevin DeYound and Ted Kluck in their book Why We're Not Emergent (By Two Guys Who Should Be), had some helpful observations in regards to why knowing and understanding the wrath of God is so vitally important to the believer's faith and growth in Jesus Christ.

1. We need God's wrath to keep us honest about evangelism. In Acts 24:25 Paul reasons with Felix about the coming judgment and righteousness.
   
2. We need God's wrath in order to forgive our enemies. Romans 12:19 is very clear that we "do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord."
   
3. We need God's wrath in order to risk our lives for Jesus' sake. Martyrs under the throne cry out, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" (Rev. 6:10).
   
4. We need God's wrath in order to live holy lives. Sometimes we need to "scare the hell out of people" by reminding them that hell is real and that those who live to the flesh will die to the flesh and that those who live to the spirit will reap eternal life.
   
5. We need God's wrath in order to understand what mercy means. Only when we know that we were once objects of wrath will we know that we are now objects of His mercy and grace. Mercy is meaningless when there is no purpose for it concerning our salvation.
   
6. We need God's wrath in order to grasp how wonderful heaven will be. If believers could imagine everyday what their lives would be like apart from Christ they would see themselves as objects of UNDESERVED mercy going to a UNDESERVED place.
   
7. We need the wrath of God in order to be motivated to care for our impoverished brothers and sisters. The Gospel says that if we don't care for the least of our brothers we will inherit eternal punishment (Matthew 25:31-46).
   
8. We need God's wrath in order to be ready for Lord's return. When we tremble truly at the coming judgment that awaits all of mankind, we will live as if our lives are ready to be given account for. Every word, deed, or thought will be seen in light of God's wrath that is coming where more people will be forced to bow while others willingly.
   

I know what some of you might thinking already, "Aren't we splitting hairs here? Is all of this really important?" Well this issue is only important if you care about being saved or knowing what you are being saved from. If the other religions are right and we have to do enough good things to get the gods to accept us, then we'd better get to our religious duties! But if the Bible is right, then God accepts us as his children totally out of Jesus' work of dying and rising again so we can have forgiveness and new life.

Now for a little honesty. I struggled with the doctrine of the wrath of God during my early years in college. I was so invested in my own self-esteem and what I "felt" was best rather than what I "believed" to be best in Scripture. The result was a denial that God could ever be angry with me. How marginalized did Jesus look to me during those days? Did he look like a warrior and triumphant victor over sin and death or a well-manicured, hippie-savior where everything is about love without consequences? It was then that I started to read the Grand-narrative of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation in seeing that propositional truth was necessary for me to base all "affections for God" upon so that what I believed to be true concerning love would be seen in light of what Christ has done already and why he did it. This would transcend the way I treated my roommates, family, and friends at that time.

There should never be reservations about proclaiming this aspect of the Gospel when sharing your faith in word or deed. Understanding this teaching in Scripture is vital for local churches to grow, be planted, and for believers to know more about their great and merciful God.

The Power Words and Wonder of God

We returned yesterday from a jam packed weekend of learning about the power of words and the wonder of God. I was exhausted before we even arrived from the week of school, but I was amazed to experience God sustaining me and giving me attentive ears despite my weak body and need for sleep. Steven and I were so blessed to spend the weekend with the Parnell's and I really enjoyed getting to know them! I was humbled to see how God has provided for them in their short time as a family.
Here are a couple pictures from our time in Minneapolis...

The conference was challenging, refreshing, and full of rejoicing. The sessions are online and free to listen to. Desiring God ministries is where you can find all of them. If you only have time for one let me suggest Paul Tripp. I have read some of his books and listen to his pod cast. He gets right to the heart and our need to look within us to see our biggest problem.
However, you should listen to them all! It will challenge the way you say words, think about words, and the actual words that you say. Those things considered... I am really struggling to get this blog post complete because I am considering each word. I pray my words are glorifying God!

I couldn't resist posting this

Reflections on the Emergent Church: Is Propositional Truth Outdated?

I have yet to post anything in regards to the Emergent Church and so I'll humbly admit that any assessments or feedback that are given in regards to this post and those in the future are welcome. I will begin this post by saying that I am in no way claiming to hold all of the answers in regards to the Emergent Church or even it's relation to what Scripture says. But, I believe I know that logically and propositionally the Bible speaks very well that all things of which it says are true should therefore be held in higher esteem than which the Emergent Church deems. The main problems I have with the Emergent Church after reading a few books by some of its leading figures such as, Rob Bell, Doug Pagitt, Tony Jones, Brian McLaren, and Dave Tomlinson is that there seems to be a major shift from objective propositional truth built on the Scriptures to subjective experience built on the existential feelings of man. You might be asking what propositional biblical truth actually is. Propositional biblical truth is that which is specific and true about Jesus Christ's life and work throughout the Bible. From the beginning of the Old Testament all the way to through the end of the New Testament; Christ's life, works, death, and resurrection are the centerpiece of which salvation is built and sustained. So what is the problem here? Would not everyone in the Emergent Church confess to these truths? You would think, but the problem does not rest with their admittance to the biblical truth of Christ. Relevance of the truth in today's culture is what makes it difficult for those in this movement to accept biblical truth as propositional rather than what they believe as subjective diversity. Propositional truth to the Emergent communities divides, raises walls, closes conversation, and leaves people out of the discussion. When I think about their reasoning for wanting to re-translate all of the biblical language used in Scripture so that others will not be offended in order to be thought of more highly, it just appears cowardly. The emphasis is not on the foundational facts of the Gospel, but in being in relationship with Jesus. Making a propositional statement and not having propositional truth to back it up does not make logical sense. How can you believe in something and deny objective facts upholding the statement by which you claim to be true. The Emergent Church I believe is now more than ever about orthopraxy rather than orthodoxy. Instead of filtering the methods the local church would use to reach people with the Gospel through the Word of God first, God's Word is filtered through pragmatic exercises. I believe the thinking of the "modern" Emergent church can be summarized this way: The preference for ethics over doctrine, the reservations about God's wrath and judgment, the perceived need to re-translate the Christian faith for a new time, the devaluing of propositional truths, the chastisement of firm doctrinal boundaries, the understanding of missions as social compassion and not conversion (I will reflect on all of these six issues over the next few weeks) - these happen to all be impulses of the modern world. Any spokesman or leading figure in the Emergent movement has the capability to grab anyone's attention in regards to opening up conversation about the propositional truths of God and His Word. They are believed to be outdated and outweighed by the current culture and the times that are ever-changing. Propositional truth to the Emergent Church is just that, subjective according to the subjected felt needs of the conversation. Why does this matter for our life in Christ? If the Bible's meaning is open for discussion, then how I treat my wife and those around me all depends on how I selfishly feel in that moment rather than what the objective truth of Scripture says. Propositional truth is not outdated nor will it ever change as it reflects the character of God in that He is immutable and does not change either in His promises that He has made. If Scripture's truth is not definite, there are more issues at stake than just how we translate the message of Jesus Christ to those around us.

Reflections on Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia & Our New Status

Praise God for what he accomplished through our lives in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. We left July 27 for Kuala Lumpur and arrived July 28 late that evening. The following morning we hit the ground running doing a lot of prayer-walking and meeting a lot of people in the neighborhood where we stayed at and especially at the University of Nilai nearby. Our role was to support Chris and Rebecca over in the city of Nilai (outside of Kuala Lumpur) and to provide resources, make contacts, and build relationships for the purposes of sharing the Gospel. We were able as well in the process to lead a few Bible Studies and a discussion group for unbelievers. Most of the University students we worked with were either International or Chinese. We did not engage the Malay people as much as we would have liked to because our main objective was to help reach the International University of Nilai as much as possible through Sports, Outreach Events, Conversations, and Small group discussions. The traditional Malay people are what the IMB believe to be an unreached people group who need more people to work with them. They currently are enslaved under Sharia Law, which makes it difficult for them to follow Christ and for those on the outside to reach in with the truth. There were so many Malays at this University who looked as if they wanted to participate in the things we offered, but just could not due to their religion and cultural values. Along the way we were able to encourage a large cluster of believing students who needed to be encouraged in their walk with Christ as they sought to witness and share the Gospel with their peers at school and in their communities. The end result of our mission was that enough work was done for another “Fellowship” (Church) to be started on another campus in the future by some of the nationals and the Unit we supported.

It is hard to say whether or not a mission trip was successful when it is God’s work and he is the one who truly makes things happen on his timetable. So with that in mind, I believe our trip was successful in that the Unit that was there who we worked with was encouraged by our work and also by the large amount of contacts we were able to make over the course of the trip. God really showed me how much he will use a friendly conversation with someone or even just the small amount of time we took to spend with a believer who lives under stricter laws than we do. It was a special thing for me to see when we began to lead some students from the University in some familiar hymns we sing in the U.S. and to hear them singing them with all of their hearts, but more importantly to hear songs they had written about God’s character and how he was showing himself to them. God has redeemed all cultures through his Gospel and desires for all nations to come and repent. I believe we were able to truly see many who had never heard of the Gospel before hear that message of hope.

Specifically, Christ showed me how powerfully he is working through the earthly powers in Malaysia. Despite Sharia Law and all that is going on politically and culturally in that nation, God is working mightily and is building his church upon his enduring Word. The character of God was on display through his eternality. God will outlast all earthly powers and he will accomplish his purposes because no hand will be able to thwart his sovereignty. Christ just taught me patience while I was there in being a faithful seed planter and allowing Christ Jesus to move in his timing to save peoples at the campuses we worked at.

There are so many stories to tell of what God did around us the whole time and so I will just tell two for the sake of space and time. First, Kristin and Emily were able to befriend a young lady from Mongolia, share a traditional Mongolian meal with her, and then to finally share the complete story of the Gospel. Being able to stand back and watch that relationship develop on both sides was exciting. Seeing Kristin branch out and totally go beyond her own comfort zone in getting to know Jackie was awesome along with seeing Jackie understand the Gospel through the two ladies’ testimony. Second, our objective in reaching out to the Nilai campus was to host an outdoor event in making contacts. We had a recording artist named Beau Bristow from the United States come and play his music in helping us make contacts. Apparently our event had such success that the University asked Chris and Rebecca to handle new student outreaches in the future, which would enable more contacts to be made and a greater window for ministry in the future.

God is working mightily in Nilai and is enabling his workers to make an impact for the Kingdom at the Universities there. We pray there will be a multi-generational church planted within walking distance soon that will include not just the students at Nilai, but the Malay people and that God would raise-up more young men to be committed to full-time ministry.

As you may have already heard from our previous newsletter last month, we have moved to Wake Forest, NC in order to better prepare for the mission field. We are excited about what the Lord will enfold for us and what we need to do now in order to prepare well for our season on the mission field. Emily is taking classes more intensively now that we are 2 minutes from the campus of Southeastern where she is trying to finish her M.A. in Biblical Counseling. While she is taking classes I am working and auditing a few Biblical Language classes in order to keep my Greek and Hebrew consistently right. At our local church we are actively involved still with the collegiate ministry in mentoring some students from Duke and UNC and we are also leading a Home Fellowship small group. We are excited about the opportunities God has put in our way so that we might prepare well for His great work overseas. Please continue to pray for discernment in our walk with Christ and as we seek the face of God in regards to the possibilities in Brazil.